John Francis Daley & Jonathan Goldstein Talk Dungeons & Dragons Honor Among Thieves

Jul 28, 2023

Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves directors John Francis Daley & Jonathan Goldstein discuss playing D&D with the cast and improvisation.

Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves follows a thief as he leads a ragtag group on an epic quest to rob one of the richest men in the land and save his daughter. The adventurers must find an ancient relic lost to the world many years ago in order to succeed in their heist. The stakes are higher than anyone expected when the adventurers make enemies out of an ancient sect of powerful magic users.

The movie brings the world of Dungeons & Dragons to life on the big screen, and it's now available on digital prior to its Blu-ray release on May 30. Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves is directed by John Francis Daley and Jonathan Goldstein, who also co-wrote the script with Michael Gilio. Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves stars Chris Pine, Michelle Rodriguez, Regé-Jean Page, Justice Smith, Sophia Lillis, Hugh Grant, Chloe Coleman, and Daisy Head.

Related: Honor Among Thieves Fixed Dungeons & Dragons' Worst LOTR Problem

Screen Rant spoke with John Francis Daley and Jonathan Goldstein about writing and directing Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves. Daley explained how the cast playing Dungeons & Dragons helped as a form of rehearsal and the hilarious scene where Xenk walks over the boulder. Goldstein revealed that the flashback to Thay was added into the movie later and how practical effects enhance the movie.

Screen Rant: I love this movie so much. I'm a huge D&D fan. I think I've seen it like four times, and it fully captures everything I love about the game. One of the things that I really love about it is the dynamic between the characters and it seems like the cast playing D&D really helped to cement that. Was there anything from that experience that impacted the script, or maybe opened the door to more improvisation?

John Francis Daley: I think what it really did was serve as a chemistry test for our actors and allowed them to fall into their roles in the film without rehearsing strictly by the book. Very often when you have this limited rehearsal time, especially during COVID, you want to hear scenes on their feet as quickly as possible so that you can make adjustments.

But there's definitely something to be said, in being able to approach it in a looser, more improvisational style. Not even necessarily to pull those improvisational lines and put them in the script. But just to get our actors into their characters and communicating with each other in a way that their characters ended up doing. So it was wildly helpful in that sense.

And then the movie introduces so many incredible characters and storylines with like, the Red Wizards of Thay, the Emerald Enclave, the Harpers, are there any that you would have liked to explore more in the film had you had time?

Jonathan Goldstein: They're all really cool with so much interesting backstory, but ultimately I think a mistake some movies in this genre do is get too in the weeds with that backstory and you lose focus on the main journey of your character. So we tried to make all that stuff as efficient as we could. The flashback to Thay that's in the movie was actually a later reshoot, which we did, because we were getting the sense from the audience's that they weren't clear on what Sophina and Szass Tam were up to. We talked about the Beckoning deathspell. But we didn't show the consequences of it. And so, as they say, better to show than tell. So that's what we did. But no, we felt like the right amount of that.

John Francis Daley: We had some extended material where we get into the Emerald Enclave and how they look at Doric. How she's very much an outsider, but it felt like too much of a diversion from our main plot. as well as the the Elk Tribe, that Holga belonged to. We get to be members of those that I think we have in the deleted scene, so you'll be able to kind of see her interaction with them.

If this were to continue with a sequel, are there any actors that you would like to bring in either as a villain or part of the adventuring party?

John Francis Daley: We haven't really thought of it. We've been so utterly focused on this film that it was imperative to us that we get this one right and not even focus on what comes after. That's kind of where our head space is still, especially with the strike, and we can't do anything anyway.

What is something from this experience that you'd like to bring into your future projects?

Jonathan Goldstein: Well, certainly, where it's relevant, the use of practical effects was really important to us and I think made a real difference both in the performances from the other cast members, but also in the look of the film. I think audiences have gotten accustomed to so much reliance on CG effects that when they see something that harkens back to the earlier days, 80s 90s and whatnot, it's refreshing and fun. That's something that I think we'd want to continue.

John Francis Daley: I also think whenever we're approaching an action sequence, to do it in a way that is fresh and subversive. I kind of glaze over and then stop engaging as an audience member when I see action sequences that have been done before and there's nothing special or unique about them. So as a reaction to that it's important to us that if we are diverting from the dialog and showing people something that is purely visual spectacle, it should be done in a way that is different from what people are expecting or had seen before. We tried to do that with D&D as much as we possibly could with each of those scenes. And definitely would be something if we were doing a big adventure picture to do the next time as well.

I love the practical effects and the action sequences are some of my favorite because of the infusion of comedy. When they're escaping when they're about to be executed. That completely killed me. That's one of my favorite things.How closely did you guys work with Wizards of the Coast when incorporating elements of The Forgotten Realms and the visual aspects of D&D to really hone in and make sure you captured it correctly?

John Francis Daley: We were very lucky to have this established lore behind us that we could build off of and to have these lore masters, these experts in their field. It almost felt like we were making historical fiction where we're consulting with the historians who know everything there is to know. So we did try to make it as as accurate to the materials we possibly could have.

Jonathan Goldstein: We had an expert on set with us while we were shooting who we could talk to. What does this spell require? And what level would it be? Almost like shooting a medical show where you have your doctor on set to advise you. So, we approached it like this is all real and tried to be as accurate as the filmmaking would permit.

Honestly, when I was watching, I felt like I could tell some of the times the dice roll that would have meant the situation. What the consequences were. So it was great. And then you mentioned some of the deleted scenes. What are some of the other like DVD extras that people can be really excited for with the Home Entertainment release?

Jonathan Goldstein: There's a there's a cornucopia, if you will, of a behind the scenes stuff. We didn't have regular press visits because of COVID. So instead, we had an embedded documentary crew and they shot all kinds of pieces that are on there that are really cool and informative about the monsters, the stunt, work, the weapons, all different things. It's really cool.

John Francis Daley: There's some sets and creatures that you literally only see for a second or two on film, but required hours and hours of meetings, consulting, and prep to lead up to it. So it gives you a better glimpse of the things that you only very briefly see in the film and how it was done. My favorite thing as a kid was a show called Movie Magic that was on Discovery and it showed how these big iconic movies like Jurassic Park were made. To be able to give people a look behind the curtain at how the sausage was made is really exciting for us.

Can you talk to me a little bit about balancing capturing the essence of D&D without letting the rules restrict the storytelling?

Jonathan Goldstein: It was really from the writing stage that we wanted to incorporate and make sure we got across the feeling of playing the game. It wasn't so much about the specific references to things in the game, but that sense of spontaneity, of things going wrong, like you said, of having rolled a low number, and so everything spins out of your control. And then what do you do? And so even though, obviously, there's nothing spontaneous in the movie it's all planned and written, but we wanted to give the audience the feeling that they were making it up as they went along.

John Francis Daley: Then we also in an effort not to alienate non fans of D&D, we did a proper noun pass of the script, where if it felt like we were getting too bogged down with names and places that nobody who is unfamiliar with D&D would know, we stripped it as much as we could. While keeping some details that we knew would go over the heads of some people, but not take them out of the story.

One of my favorite moments in the movie is the speech about being a failure, but continuing to fail. Can you talk about the importance of that message?

John Francis Daley: Life is all about failing. That is where we learn. When you succeed you don't really learn and so to be able to continue to fail and to not stigmatize failure in a way that prevents you from following the thing that makes you happy, is paramount to growing as a human being on this planet. We have very limited time on this earth. So to be able to kind of embrace failure and understand things from it in a way that makes us improve, whether it's how we perceive ourselves or how we make an impact on the world, is one of the most important things. So I think our characters are all failures in their own way and that's a good thing because it means they've learned a lot. And they're ready to grow and get better. Just like we all are.

I love that. And then what was one of the most surprising parts about working on this either in the writing process or on set when directing?

John Francis Daley: For me, it was how quickly the actors fell into the world and into their characters. It can be incredibly overwhelming as an actor to go on to a set that is largely practical, we tried to avoid blue screen as much as we could, while there is a good deal of it in the film, to have something tangible, but also so alien, I think can overwhelm people. And the fact that they were skilled enough to be able to embrace it and make it part of their home is a talent that you don't often see.

Jonathan Goldstein: Shouldn't have surprised me, but it did was just how funny Regé-Jean Page can be because that part is deceptively difficult. You have to commit so completely to the stupid seriousness of it and never wink, and never let on that you know,your ridiculous character for it to work. And he really committed it was fantastic.

He was amazing. Walking over the boulder. I died. That is one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

John Francis Daley: That was improvised. That was one of the few improvised moments that we had. We just decided to keep the cameras rolling as he was walking off into the sunset.

Jonathan Goldstein: That's how committed he was to the part that he would walk until we told him to stop.

John Francis Daley: We said to each other, what's he going to do and he gets to that rock? Thought maybe he's walk around it, but no jumped over it. And then we kind of retrofitted that line from Chris into Edgin's mouth so that he really kind of hones in on that moment.

A charming thief and a band of unlikely adventurers embark on an epic quest to retrieve a long-lost relic, but their charming adventure goes dangerously awry when they run afoul of the wrong people.

Check out our other Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves interviews.

Dungeons and Dragons: Honor Among Thieves is on Digital now and on 4K Ultra HD SteelBook, 4K Ultra HD, Blu-ray, and DVD on May 30.